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	<title>Comments on: Christians, are we arbiters of social justice or dispensers of grace to society?</title>
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	<link>http://rkweblog.com/2009/03/christians-are-we-arbiters-of-social-justice-or-dispencers-of-grace-to-society.html</link>
	<description>A conversation on faith &#38; culture for creatives, leaders &#38; influencers</description>
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		<title>By: Beverly Hogue</title>
		<link>http://rkweblog.com/2009/03/christians-are-we-arbiters-of-social-justice-or-dispencers-of-grace-to-society.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4064</link>
		<dc:creator>Beverly Hogue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 20:18:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rkweblog.com/?p=1782#comment-4064</guid>
		<description>Awesome! Thank you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Awesome! Thank you!</p>
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		<title>By: Ravine of Light &#187; Symptoms vs. Disease</title>
		<link>http://rkweblog.com/2009/03/christians-are-we-arbiters-of-social-justice-or-dispencers-of-grace-to-society.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4060</link>
		<dc:creator>Ravine of Light &#187; Symptoms vs. Disease</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 19:52:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rkweblog.com/?p=1782#comment-4060</guid>
		<description>[...] was thinking about that patient this morning as I read, yet again, Rich Kirkpatrick&#8217;s fine post from Monday about the weaving together of justice and mercy.   Rich does a great job of discussing and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] was thinking about that patient this morning as I read, yet again, Rich Kirkpatrick&#8217;s fine post from Monday about the weaving together of justice and mercy.   Rich does a great job of discussing and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Beverly Hogue</title>
		<link>http://rkweblog.com/2009/03/christians-are-we-arbiters-of-social-justice-or-dispencers-of-grace-to-society.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4057</link>
		<dc:creator>Beverly Hogue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:09:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rkweblog.com/?p=1782#comment-4057</guid>
		<description>&quot;That should give our anger at injustice a bit of grace infusion.&quot; Absolutely! Grace must be central. God told us to love mercy right after he told us do justice, right?

I think my fear is that too heavy a focus on grace might lead to muddy thinking that freezes us into a place of inaction.

I am interested in your idea of militancy in the Church around issues of social justice. Can you help understand what you are speaking of specifically? I can be uninformed and a little slow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;That should give our anger at injustice a bit of grace infusion.&#8221; Absolutely! Grace must be central. God told us to love mercy right after he told us do justice, right?</p>
<p>I think my fear is that too heavy a focus on grace might lead to muddy thinking that freezes us into a place of inaction.</p>
<p>I am interested in your idea of militancy in the Church around issues of social justice. Can you help understand what you are speaking of specifically? I can be uninformed and a little slow.</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Kirkpatrick</title>
		<link>http://rkweblog.com/2009/03/christians-are-we-arbiters-of-social-justice-or-dispencers-of-grace-to-society.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4053</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Kirkpatrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 17:44:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rkweblog.com/?p=1782#comment-4053</guid>
		<description>&quot;You can’t separate justice and mercy. It is ineffectual and condescending to just “do mercy.” Doing justice without mercy lacks love.&quot;

Well put. You got the nut of the question and answered very eloquently. My idea here is that I see complacency as an issue, of course. But, I also see militancy on the other side where &quot;the end justifies the means.&quot; Yes, Jesus was not wimpy, but He was Jesus! We have not the same moral high ground, only what we borrow from Him. That should give our anger at injustice a bit of grace infusion I would hope.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;You can’t separate justice and mercy. It is ineffectual and condescending to just “do mercy.” Doing justice without mercy lacks love.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well put. You got the nut of the question and answered very eloquently. My idea here is that I see complacency as an issue, of course. But, I also see militancy on the other side where &#8220;the end justifies the means.&#8221; Yes, Jesus was not wimpy, but He was Jesus! We have not the same moral high ground, only what we borrow from Him. That should give our anger at injustice a bit of grace infusion I would hope.</p>
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		<title>By: Beverly Hogue</title>
		<link>http://rkweblog.com/2009/03/christians-are-we-arbiters-of-social-justice-or-dispencers-of-grace-to-society.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4052</link>
		<dc:creator>Beverly Hogue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 17:31:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rkweblog.com/?p=1782#comment-4052</guid>
		<description>Hi Rich,
Do I think mercy and compassion are weak? No. In some ways they are harder than justice. They challenge us to be &quot;angry and not sin&quot; (something I am still working on). 

We can think that compassion is laying out a Gospel of John and a glossy full color invitation to an impossible to get to church on an inner city homeless person&#039;s bed so we can feel good about &quot;spreading the love of Christ&quot; (actually saw that Tuesday-  made me burning mad).  How is that compassionate or merciful? It is not. It is self serving and rude. 

Later that day I met a woman who also hands out to my homeless neighbors - socks, candy and an ear to hear what they need and guide them to it. She is in that world even though she is not of it.  No drive by &quot;loving&quot; there. We were at an event with city politicos, homeless activists and addicts, social workers, reporters, college students spending their spring break focusing on housing issues, and other people with a desire to seek justice. 

I am sorry, but the anonymous tract dispenser is much more militant than any of these folks. See Wikipedia definition of militant &quot;The word militant refers to any individual or party engaged in aggressive physical or verbal combat, usually for a cause.&quot; It is aggressive to enter someone&#039;s home, spew your ideology and leave when they have no chance to engage in dialog. The fact that this person couldn&#039;t conceive that they were violating another person&#039;s space and dignity is a reflection of how self centered our &quot;mercy and compassion&quot; can be.

Christianity not a &quot;cause,&quot; it is about how we relate to others. Is my &quot;compassion&quot; building a relationship? Or is it dumping my used sweaters on beach in Sumatra so I can feel good? Isn&#039;t dumping our trash on a village suffering from a tsunami in the name of Christ a bit aggressive?  That was done as an act of mercy.

I do not have access to little girls suffering in Cambodian brothels or little boys being flogged bloody so that Nestle can deliver some Chocolate Quik to my local Safeway, but as a Christian I am obligated to examine my relationship with them. Is supporting the lawyer who puts the little girls&#039; kidnappers and rapists on trial militant, or is it acting in right relationship to both her and her oppressors? Is forgoing Tollhouse cookies aggressive? I think these are acts of mercy and compassion because they are about justice.

I am hearing that Jesus was this gentle, loving almost passive person. I am confused by that. Loving - yes. Gentle - sometimes. Passive - no. Jesus flipped tables over at the temple, stood up to a mob ready to stone a woman, escaped violent crowds, halted a funeral procession, told off the corrupt leaders of his day, broke the rules to feed or heal when it was needed, went outside the circle of those considered socially acceptable and sought out the disenfranchised. How many of us are acting like that? Is it militant if we do? Is it militant if we do it out of love for people we have not met? If we do it because we are in love with Christ? How about when we do it for our church? Or for Christianity? 

I think the last two are where we get in trouble. As Christians, the notion of social justice requires us to think for ourselves instead of blindly following our leaders and to lay our self serving behavior before God. Ouch. We don&#039;t like the pain (and some of us don&#039;t like to think), so we act &quot;compassionately&quot; because it feels good and the church held a bake sale or clothing drive. 

The Christ told us &quot;Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.&quot; (Matthew 10:34) And then he started talking about very intimate relationships that would be severed when we &quot;take up our cross&quot;  - because we are entering into a new community where compassionate behavior is how we achieve our calling.  The final example he gave when telling us how to pick up our cross and follow him was giving a cup of water to a child. It is our job as Christians to take care of children even if we are offensive or &quot;militant&quot; in the process.

Sometimes that means digging a well. Sometimes that means chatting up a prostitute who is a single mom trying to feed her kids and having a bad night or standing with a homeless friend outside city hall, giving money to the people working with child soldiers in Uganda or fighting your way through to a little girl enslaved on a rice plantation.

You can&#039;t separate justice and mercy. It is ineffectual and condescending to just &quot;do mercy.&quot; Doing justice without mercy lacks love. 

Compassion denotes that we are standing &quot;with&quot; the sufferer, thus the &quot;com&quot; part of compassion. Compassion is an emotion of community. Mercy is not just judicial clemency, it is compassionate action. Justice is the quality of being fair and righteous. 

Maybe if we spent more time seeking justice for people who need mercy, we wouldn&#039;t have the bad reputation our &quot;compassion&quot; has given us and wouldn&#039;t have to contemplate softening the word. True community may have been built with &quot;others&quot; and they also might understand us and the God we try to serve.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Rich,<br />
Do I think mercy and compassion are weak? No. In some ways they are harder than justice. They challenge us to be &#8220;angry and not sin&#8221; (something I am still working on). </p>
<p>We can think that compassion is laying out a Gospel of John and a glossy full color invitation to an impossible to get to church on an inner city homeless person&#8217;s bed so we can feel good about &#8220;spreading the love of Christ&#8221; (actually saw that Tuesday-  made me burning mad).  How is that compassionate or merciful? It is not. It is self serving and rude. </p>
<p>Later that day I met a woman who also hands out to my homeless neighbors &#8211; socks, candy and an ear to hear what they need and guide them to it. She is in that world even though she is not of it.  No drive by &#8220;loving&#8221; there. We were at an event with city politicos, homeless activists and addicts, social workers, reporters, college students spending their spring break focusing on housing issues, and other people with a desire to seek justice. </p>
<p>I am sorry, but the anonymous tract dispenser is much more militant than any of these folks. See Wikipedia definition of militant &#8220;The word militant refers to any individual or party engaged in aggressive physical or verbal combat, usually for a cause.&#8221; It is aggressive to enter someone&#8217;s home, spew your ideology and leave when they have no chance to engage in dialog. The fact that this person couldn&#8217;t conceive that they were violating another person&#8217;s space and dignity is a reflection of how self centered our &#8220;mercy and compassion&#8221; can be.</p>
<p>Christianity not a &#8220;cause,&#8221; it is about how we relate to others. Is my &#8220;compassion&#8221; building a relationship? Or is it dumping my used sweaters on beach in Sumatra so I can feel good? Isn&#8217;t dumping our trash on a village suffering from a tsunami in the name of Christ a bit aggressive?  That was done as an act of mercy.</p>
<p>I do not have access to little girls suffering in Cambodian brothels or little boys being flogged bloody so that Nestle can deliver some Chocolate Quik to my local Safeway, but as a Christian I am obligated to examine my relationship with them. Is supporting the lawyer who puts the little girls&#8217; kidnappers and rapists on trial militant, or is it acting in right relationship to both her and her oppressors? Is forgoing Tollhouse cookies aggressive? I think these are acts of mercy and compassion because they are about justice.</p>
<p>I am hearing that Jesus was this gentle, loving almost passive person. I am confused by that. Loving &#8211; yes. Gentle &#8211; sometimes. Passive &#8211; no. Jesus flipped tables over at the temple, stood up to a mob ready to stone a woman, escaped violent crowds, halted a funeral procession, told off the corrupt leaders of his day, broke the rules to feed or heal when it was needed, went outside the circle of those considered socially acceptable and sought out the disenfranchised. How many of us are acting like that? Is it militant if we do? Is it militant if we do it out of love for people we have not met? If we do it because we are in love with Christ? How about when we do it for our church? Or for Christianity? </p>
<p>I think the last two are where we get in trouble. As Christians, the notion of social justice requires us to think for ourselves instead of blindly following our leaders and to lay our self serving behavior before God. Ouch. We don&#8217;t like the pain (and some of us don&#8217;t like to think), so we act &#8220;compassionately&#8221; because it feels good and the church held a bake sale or clothing drive. </p>
<p>The Christ told us &#8220;Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.&#8221; (Matthew 10:34) And then he started talking about very intimate relationships that would be severed when we &#8220;take up our cross&#8221;  &#8211; because we are entering into a new community where compassionate behavior is how we achieve our calling.  The final example he gave when telling us how to pick up our cross and follow him was giving a cup of water to a child. It is our job as Christians to take care of children even if we are offensive or &#8220;militant&#8221; in the process.</p>
<p>Sometimes that means digging a well. Sometimes that means chatting up a prostitute who is a single mom trying to feed her kids and having a bad night or standing with a homeless friend outside city hall, giving money to the people working with child soldiers in Uganda or fighting your way through to a little girl enslaved on a rice plantation.</p>
<p>You can&#8217;t separate justice and mercy. It is ineffectual and condescending to just &#8220;do mercy.&#8221; Doing justice without mercy lacks love. </p>
<p>Compassion denotes that we are standing &#8220;with&#8221; the sufferer, thus the &#8220;com&#8221; part of compassion. Compassion is an emotion of community. Mercy is not just judicial clemency, it is compassionate action. Justice is the quality of being fair and righteous. </p>
<p>Maybe if we spent more time seeking justice for people who need mercy, we wouldn&#8217;t have the bad reputation our &#8220;compassion&#8221; has given us and wouldn&#8217;t have to contemplate softening the word. True community may have been built with &#8220;others&#8221; and they also might understand us and the God we try to serve.</p>
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		<title>By: Sonja Andrews</title>
		<link>http://rkweblog.com/2009/03/christians-are-we-arbiters-of-social-justice-or-dispencers-of-grace-to-society.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4047</link>
		<dc:creator>Sonja Andrews</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:25:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rkweblog.com/?p=1782#comment-4047</guid>
		<description>Oh ... please do not misunderstand me.  I am not saying we should stand by and not do anything.  Not at all.  I am saying that it&#039;s possible that we could use some time looking more closely at our perspective and our own motives.  How do we expect to weave justice and mercy together as we wage a war on (insert social justice issue of the moment here).  Mercy is usually a victim during wartime.  And the visual I get of Jesus on the cross suffering gross physical injustice so that we might have mercy, brings me to my knees.  The two concepts seem diametrically opposed, yet God enjoins us to put them together ... what does He mean by that?  And how should we do it?  

I&#039;m really digging this post Rich ... it&#039;s wonderful.  Deep and full of really great stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh &#8230; please do not misunderstand me.  I am not saying we should stand by and not do anything.  Not at all.  I am saying that it&#8217;s possible that we could use some time looking more closely at our perspective and our own motives.  How do we expect to weave justice and mercy together as we wage a war on (insert social justice issue of the moment here).  Mercy is usually a victim during wartime.  And the visual I get of Jesus on the cross suffering gross physical injustice so that we might have mercy, brings me to my knees.  The two concepts seem diametrically opposed, yet God enjoins us to put them together &#8230; what does He mean by that?  And how should we do it?  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m really digging this post Rich &#8230; it&#8217;s wonderful.  Deep and full of really great stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex McLean</title>
		<link>http://rkweblog.com/2009/03/christians-are-we-arbiters-of-social-justice-or-dispencers-of-grace-to-society.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4046</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex McLean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:01:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rkweblog.com/?p=1782#comment-4046</guid>
		<description>Ever seen the movie Boondock Saints? I&#039;m just sayin...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ever seen the movie Boondock Saints? I&#8217;m just sayin&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Kirkpatrick</title>
		<link>http://rkweblog.com/2009/03/christians-are-we-arbiters-of-social-justice-or-dispencers-of-grace-to-society.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4045</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Kirkpatrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 15:05:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rkweblog.com/?p=1782#comment-4045</guid>
		<description>Thanks Sonja for letting me struggle with this and contributing more thought to this. Surely we are to free the captives, and do as Jesus did...but &quot;how&quot; he did. That is the part that makes me think I am not as humble about even the puny &quot;good&quot; things I do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Sonja for letting me struggle with this and contributing more thought to this. Surely we are to free the captives, and do as Jesus did&#8230;but &#8220;how&#8221; he did. That is the part that makes me think I am not as humble about even the puny &#8220;good&#8221; things I do.</p>
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		<title>By: Sonja Andrews</title>
		<link>http://rkweblog.com/2009/03/christians-are-we-arbiters-of-social-justice-or-dispencers-of-grace-to-society.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4044</link>
		<dc:creator>Sonja Andrews</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 12:15:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rkweblog.com/?p=1782#comment-4044</guid>
		<description>Rich, I read this last night and then I had to come back and read it again this morning.  It&#039;s just knocking me over because it&#039;s so powerful.  I&#039;m especially meditating on the images I get with the interplay of these two sentences:

&quot;The cross was the greatest social injustice in history, but no greater act of mercy has been recorded for mankind and the world.

Most of us, when confronted with the injustice of the world want to act.&quot;

When I think about **how** Jesus confronted social injustice versus how we do I am gob-smacked.  We want to march in and make it stop, punish the perpetrators, save the innocents, etc., etc.  We look at this from an almost military perspective ... and wage wars on drugs, pornography, whatever the latest evil of the moment is.  This ends up creating a continuing cycle of injustice and harm in the world:  the original evil, then the evil caused by stopping it.  

Jesus didn&#039;t see it like that.  He didn&#039;t wage any wars on the evils of his day (which were markedly similar to the evils of ours).  He looked at the root of evil and began there.  He talked to individuals and didn&#039;t make laws on top of rules.  He invited people to the table.  He invited them to inspect their own hearts.  While being subversive and humble, it was also the most powerful act he could do (see the woman caught in adultery, or the woman at the well, or the rich young ruler).  Ultimately, when he could have saved himself against the an act of grave social injustice he engaged in a powerful act of humility and did nothing to save himself at all.  

I wonder sometimes if our perspective needs to be broadened and our horizons widened so that we can see beyond ourselves and our immediate situation, dire though it may be, to the root of the evil that we face.  If we were able to see that more clearly, I think we&#039;d have a better understanding of how to weave doing justice and loving mercy together in a more whole and tightly woven cloth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rich, I read this last night and then I had to come back and read it again this morning.  It&#8217;s just knocking me over because it&#8217;s so powerful.  I&#8217;m especially meditating on the images I get with the interplay of these two sentences:</p>
<p>&#8220;The cross was the greatest social injustice in history, but no greater act of mercy has been recorded for mankind and the world.</p>
<p>Most of us, when confronted with the injustice of the world want to act.&#8221;</p>
<p>When I think about **how** Jesus confronted social injustice versus how we do I am gob-smacked.  We want to march in and make it stop, punish the perpetrators, save the innocents, etc., etc.  We look at this from an almost military perspective &#8230; and wage wars on drugs, pornography, whatever the latest evil of the moment is.  This ends up creating a continuing cycle of injustice and harm in the world:  the original evil, then the evil caused by stopping it.  </p>
<p>Jesus didn&#8217;t see it like that.  He didn&#8217;t wage any wars on the evils of his day (which were markedly similar to the evils of ours).  He looked at the root of evil and began there.  He talked to individuals and didn&#8217;t make laws on top of rules.  He invited people to the table.  He invited them to inspect their own hearts.  While being subversive and humble, it was also the most powerful act he could do (see the woman caught in adultery, or the woman at the well, or the rich young ruler).  Ultimately, when he could have saved himself against the an act of grave social injustice he engaged in a powerful act of humility and did nothing to save himself at all.  </p>
<p>I wonder sometimes if our perspective needs to be broadened and our horizons widened so that we can see beyond ourselves and our immediate situation, dire though it may be, to the root of the evil that we face.  If we were able to see that more clearly, I think we&#8217;d have a better understanding of how to weave doing justice and loving mercy together in a more whole and tightly woven cloth.</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Kirkpatrick</title>
		<link>http://rkweblog.com/2009/03/christians-are-we-arbiters-of-social-justice-or-dispencers-of-grace-to-society.html/comment-page-1/#comment-4042</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Kirkpatrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 01:13:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rkweblog.com/?p=1782#comment-4042</guid>
		<description>well said!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well said!</p>
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